WHAT? There was more to the story?


By alfrednewman, Section Diaries
Posted on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 08:10:56 AM EST

What?  There is more to the Shutter abuse story then what was originally reported?  She wasn't just some white woman from the Suburbs who was innocently lost in West Hill?

She actually was there to pick up someone who was scoring drugs?  She lied to the police about why she was there and who she was with?

The police said she fit the profile and now it is starting to look like they were RIGHT????

What the hell is going on here?  I thought this was some innocent soccer mom type from the Suburns who was abused by thugs on the police force and searched for no reason-  not someone who was playing cabby for a drug buying felon.

So the internal affairs complaint was started by Shutter's brother and it was her mom that called the Times Union?  This just gets better all the time.

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WHAT? There was more to the story? | 44 comments (44 topical, 0 hidden)
For context... (none / 0) (#1)
by AlfredMoisiu on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:17:40 AM EST
Here's the story the Newmac is referring to.

A few passages in the story make it clear that this is far from an open and shut case:

Shutter said she is not surprised that police and prosecutors are seeking to use Buxton against her. She did not know he was going to buy drugs that night, she said, noting that no drugs were found on her and that she'd offered to take drug and alcohol tests.

In a Times Union article last month, Shutter admitted she lied to police about being with Buxton that night because of his parole status.

"Now I understand why people don't come forward. Who wants this? I don't," Shutter said. "But I'm not willing to back off. They'll try every tactic in the book to get you to back off. This is exactly why people don't come forward."

and

Shutter's account is that she drove Buxton into Albany and dropped him off in West Hill while she went to run errands. She visited a tanning booth, went to a computer games store to return some gifts and ate dinner at a fast-food restaurant before driving back to West Hill to pick him up, she said.

She was lost and trying to contact Buxton on her cellphone when officers pulled her over on Quail Street. Police records said they pulled her over for failure to signal.



Newmac? (none / 0) (#2)
by alfrednewman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:41:17 AM EST
Out of context or not there is a lot more to this story then we were origianlly told.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"
[ Parent ]
Al (none / 0) (#3)
by albany layman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 09:57:20 AM EST
Who, exactly, said this woman was a soccer mom from the suburbs?  Or are you just doing a little exaggerating there?

How, exactly, does the fact that Shutter's boyfriend called APD internal affairs, and that Shutter's mother called the TU, change anything at all?

Here is the essential question for you: Do you think the stop was legitimate, and do you think the search was legitimate?

Disturbing (none / 0) (#4)
by albany layman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:04:33 AM EST
This is disturbing:

His sister, Mandie Buxton, on Saturday said her brother had told her prosecutors offered to reduce his sentence by more than half, with a possible minimum of three years in prison, if he provided a statement that could be used to pick apart Shutter's allegations against the officers who stopped her.

If this is accurate, and if "prosecutors" refers to the DA's office (big "ifs," I know), then that means the DA's office is in the business of covering the asses of the APD.

Or am I missing something?  Are there charges pending against Shutter?  Doesn't look like it: "[...] Shutter was not ticketed [...]"  So, prosecutors are not trying to leverage Buxton against Shutter in terms of improving a case against Shutter.  No, it looks like the only reason for making this offer is Official Albany's Favorite Tactic: Cover-up.

Can we get the DA's office on record on this?  TU?  Anyone?

Stop Snitchin' (none / 0) (#14)
by AlfredMoisiu on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 12:56:10 PM EST
Something like 5% of cases go to trial, so the rest get plead out. Unless you have money for a good lawyer, evidence or witness testimony make a trial a formality. Hence the Stop Snitchin' campaign.

My guess is that Shutter was lucky that she had gotten lost, and if she had picked up her "friend", she'd be in jail right now for possession. Instead of doing the smart thing and shutting the fuck up, she spoke out and drew attention to herself, hoping to score a big verdict.

Now, her "friend" is looking at some time, and the DA is offering leniency in exchange for his testimony. This happens every day.

[ Parent ]

Either (none / 0) (#16)
by albany layman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:09:47 PM EST
you are not understanding me, or I am not understanding you.

What "big verdict" is Shutter hoping for?  Again, it appears that there are no charges against her.  

So, what do the prosecutors get in return for an agreement with Buxton?  The only thing that I can come up with is that they are trying to cover the ass of the APD for making a bad stop and a bad search.


[ Parent ]

uhhh... (none / 0) (#21)
by AlfredMoisiu on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:49:33 PM EST
If a cop essentially rapes you in the middle of the street, you're going to get a substantial judgement in a civil case.

The prosecutor gets two things: the truth, and a conspiracy to purchase narcotics charge.


[ Parent ]

come on layman (none / 0) (#5)
by DIA on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:34:02 AM EST
you know that white women who give black guys a ride in their car and drive around in poor sections of town are guilty and have no rights.  You do know that, right?  

I agree that the DA has some explaining to do.  The DA's office is supposedly investigating this and than at the same time handing out incentives for people to tell stories to cover it up.  

Sounds like a bit of a conflict of interest.  

one other thing, newman (none / 0) (#6)
by DIA on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:37:13 AM EST
the news of her saying she lied to the police about who she was going to meet has been out for at least a month.  She admitted that several articles ago.  

too bad, you missed an opportunity for faux outrage back then.

This article appears to be about something else.

Soccer, anyone?

Of Course I am exagerating (none / 0) (#7)
by alfrednewman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 10:57:08 AM EST
The Times Union played this whole thing as an unwarrented search of a mommy from the 'burbs who was abused by the police because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Not someone hanging with the criminal element, acting as chauffeur" for someone in town to buy drugs.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

actually (none / 0) (#11)
by albany layman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:30:09 AM EST
The TU played this as a pretty straight news story.  I can't speak to what they said in their editorials, because I don't read their editorials.

You didn't answer the question: Legitimate stop?  Legitimate search?

[ Parent ]

Sorry DIA (none / 0) (#8)
by alfrednewman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:10:45 AM EST
You know that I use your site as my main source of news.  I quess you didn't take a breath from beating on the police to inform me that the star of the show is a liar.

Next I am going to find that the DA has been fucking up budget requests.

And DIA, you wrote:you know that white women who give black guys a ride in their car and drive around in poor sections of town are guilty and have no rights.  You do know that, right?

Why do you assume that Willie is black?  Is it because he is was buying drugs? Is that the reason why you are trying to inject his race into your story?

According to New York State DOC Willie is white in your world APD wouldnt have a problem with that.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

nah (none / 0) (#9)
by DIA on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:20:08 AM EST
its because I've never met a white guy named Willie.

I was profiling.

and al (none / 0) (#10)
by DIA on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:24:06 AM EST
you and the rest who call me anti cop really are a bunch of wimps.

All I've ever said is that cops who break the law should be held responsible and that the chief and the mayor are the ones who should really be held accountable as they make the rules and negotiate the union contract.  

You call that beating up on the police.  

Funny how being anti crime gets me labeled anti cop.

ps.  And I don't wear a flag pin either so I guess i'm a traitor.  

Up is down.  Right is wrong.  I guess i'm back from vacation.

DIA (none / 0) (#12)
by one flew east on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 12:23:53 PM EST
Could you show me the Times Union article where Shutter admitted that she had lied to the authorities.  This is all news to me.  She mentioned that she went to West End to pick up her brother's friend.  I guess she forgot about the part where she dropped him off.  The earlier Times Union's articles made it seem like she was a poor lost white girl looking for a friend.  

The question you should be asking, is why did is lie?  Her explaination of she lied because of Buxton's parole status makes no sense.  It has nothing to do with her allegations, so why lie?  Especially, if you believe that she had no idea what he was doing.  Unless of course, she was trying to cover up for her own criminal activity.  That would also explain why her boyfriend filed the complaint and not her.  

I do know this about a criminal investigation.  Whether you are a suspect, witness or victim, your credibility is everything.  Once you are found to be lying, about any part of your statement, your credibility goes south quickly.  Maybe that is why she hasn't been in front of a Grand Jury.  

And I wouldn't believe everything that Buxton says, but I do know that he'll have to do something, that she'll never have to, and that is take a polygraph test.  

Don't put stock in the polygraph (none / 0) (#13)
by AlfredMoisiu on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 12:43:18 PM EST
Not to change the subject, but the polygraph is a load of shit that is nothing more than a way to intimidate people during an interrogation.

In the army, the course for making your a certified polygraph operator is a 4-week class. It's a joke.

Aldrich Ames, the CIA mole, was polygraphed every 3 months for over 20 years. He passed every one.

[ Parent ]

AlMo (none / 0) (#15)
by one flew east on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 01:22:24 PM EST
My point is, he'll have his statement scrutinized, more than she will have hers.  

so basically (none / 0) (#17)
by albany layman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:17:30 PM EST
what I am hearing is that, because of her choice of friends, and because she tried to help a friend, that she therefore does not have any rights regarding an unreasonable search.  Is that about it?

No Layman (none / 0) (#18)
by one flew east on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 02:48:46 PM EST
I guess you're missing the point.  You can't lie about one thing and expect people to believe you about another, it's called credibility.  Her credibility should be questioned if she lied.  Everyone here talks about finding out the truth.  I guess you only mean that if it fits your theory.  

And during an investigation, lies of omission are just as important as lies of commission.  Funny, you have no problem questioning the cops credibility.  

thanks one flew east (none / 0) (#19)
by DIA on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 03:43:52 PM EST
so when the police chief lied about his knowledge of the FBI investigation of one of the cops, I guess you realized you couldn't believe anything he said.

And then when he lied about how he wasn't informed about how one cop was buying steroids but then it turned out he was informed, you said to yourself, "this guy is a liar, i can't believe him"

And then when he lied about the machine guns (multiple lies) you said to yourself that three times was the charm and you said he had no credibility.

And then when Mayor Jennings said there were no gangs in Albany, you said "fuck that liar".   And when Jennings said that cops who were drunk and crashing cars were "not working" but were actually working, you said that you no longer thought the mayor was credible.  

Are you willing to work with that?  Let us play fair.  Or should we just take you and your people at their word but everyone else should be called liars?

Does that work better for you?  Because for a minute there you sounded reasonable.

So you're siding with the cops? (none / 0) (#23)
by AlfredMoisiu on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:55:11 PM EST
You've asserted that Jennings/Tuffey have zero credibility in light of the machine gun scandal, et al.

Therefore, a logical person would conclude that since Shutter lied about material facts in the investigation, she has no credibility, and her story should be dismissed.

It must be great to live in a black & white world like yours! Shades of grey are a bummer.

[ Parent ]

Same spin DIA (none / 0) (#20)
by one flew east on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:23:03 PM EST
You know what's funny, no matter what anyone posts on your blog, you always come back to your same spin. Blah, blah, blah, Jennings, Tuffey, blah, blah, blah, Jennings, Tuffey.  

So I will repeat myself for the third time.  I don't give a fuck what you say about Jenings and Tuffey, they are big boys they can defend themselves.  I think that you are the one that needs help with your obsession, because no matter what the subject, you always make it about them.  

If you could curtail your bias for a moment, you would see that I never called anyone a liar.  I asked a simple question, and apparently it's one, that you won't or can't answer.  Again you don't care if she lied because that wouldn't fit with your agenda.  And you say you want the truth.  Yeah, right.

And I only speak for myself, not others.  


I'm not missing any point (none / 0) (#22)
by albany layman on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 05:54:20 PM EST
Here's the thing.  She could have lied about where she was for breakfast, where she was for lunch, and what she had for dinner.  None of that changes what happened: The cops did a search, without a warrant, including a cavity search.  They fucked up, and they are trying to cover their asses now by bringing into the story this guy who wasn't even in the car when the cops pulled her over.

Obviously, I am basing this on what I have read, and of course, and as always, there could be more information that hasn't come out yet.  But from what I have read so far, this was a bad stop, a bad search, and now Official Albany is trying to throw whatever mud they can to save their collective ass.

If more info comes out, I will re-evaluate.  But from what I have read, this was a bad stop and search.

Legalize it (none / 0) (#25)
by Corruptany on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:31:32 PM EST
Since were on the note of drugs, I wanted to pose the thought of drug legalization. Each year we spend billions of dollars for what reason, to curb people getting high. Problem is that this drug war actually caused more of the problems. Due to profit, drug cartels are formed and we see increases in gang violence, people committing crimes to get a fix, cities torn apart and guess what the HIGHEST prison population in the world. So with that note, here is my solution, we legalize drugs and regulate them like we do alcohol and tobacco (two dangerous and addicting drugs by the way) and increase money in drug treatment. Doing so will take the profit motive from gangs and save our country millions. Here all check out this website and tell me what you think. Its ex policeman telling us the truth and problem with the war on drugs.

www.leap.org

[ Parent ]

Layman (none / 0) (#24)
by one flew east on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 07:28:38 PM EST
So let me get this straight, you're saying that lying about who you were with and why you were there, isn't important.  Go tell that to all the people in jail who lied about the exact same things.  Then answer the question.   Why did she lie?  

And you keep on saying this was a "bad stop".  Are you suggesting that the cops didn't have probably cause to stop her?  If so, tell me what that is based on?  And don't tell me because they didn't give her a ticket.  That suggests nothing.  

very predictable (none / 0) (#26)
by albany layman on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 06:15:28 AM EST
I knew as soon as I hit the 'submit' button that you would jump on that.  Fine.  They say they stopped her because she was on her phone and failed to signal.  Maybe the stop itself was legit.

My issue is with the search.  From what I have read, they had no business searching her without a warrant.  And that goes double for doing a cavity search.

Maybe she didn't know her rights.  Maybe she was too scared to refuse the search.  Maybe she lied and told the cops that she was the queen of Arabia.  None of those things make the search legitimate.

(And of course, once again, I am commenting based on what I have read so far, and if more info comes out, I will re-evaluate.  I say this because somehow these discussions devolve into a game of "gotcha," a game I am really not interested in playing.)

[ Parent ]

Layman (none / 0) (#27)
by alfrednewman on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:30:32 AM EST
This is another case where the more we read the more questions that come up. The context certainly is important here.

You said something earlier that caught my eye.  

Do you really think that the District Attorney would cut a deal with Willie the Robber in order to provide cover for police misconduct?  
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

Al (none / 0) (#29)
by albany layman on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:55:02 AM EST
That is the question that I am asking.  And that is the question that the DA should get on the record and answer.

[ Parent ]
Did the Times Union lie? (none / 0) (#28)
by one flew east on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 09:34:23 AM EST
 Maybe it's me, but I can't find this article.

  "In a Times Union article last month, Shutter admitted she lied to police about being with Buxton that night because of his parole status".

Can anyone show me where the Times Union printed that Lisa Shutter lied to the authorities?

What they did print is the following:

March 2, 2008 - "The incident unfolded just after 7pm on Dec. 22.  Shutter said she'd just finished some last-minute holiday shopping and became confused as she drove through West Hill looking for a friend she'd agreed to pick up that night".

March 5, 2008 - "Shutter said she became lost that evening driving through West Hill as she was trying to pick up her best friend's brother, who is on parole".

Is this it? (none / 0) (#30)
by integritypd on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 01:18:53 PM EST
From March 5 -
Shutter said she became lost that evening driving through West Hill as she was trying to pick up her best friend's brother, who is on parole. Shutter was behind the wheel of a rental car and claims the officer told her they pulled her over because she was "a white girl in a rental car."

The officer pressed Shutter about drug use and where she was going. They dumped the contents of her purse, found an empty wallet and asked her if she'd spent her money on crack cocaine, she said.

Shutter said she panicked at one point under their questioning and told the officer she was picking up her best friend, Mandie Buxton, and not Buxton's brother, because of his parole status.

Apparently that is a nice way to say she lied to the cops and wouldve also explained why they called her friend about the travel plans that night. A lie's a lie. On one hand it damages her cred and on the other it hurts them cause it supports reason to grab and use her phone.

integritypd

Can we get back to the facts, please? (none / 0) (#31)
by FedUp on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 08:50:52 PM EST
No matter WHAT Shutter was  doing in Albany and whether the stop/search is confirmed the APD still has the following issues:

  1.  The APD has a unit which utilizes highly aggressive and legally questionable tactics in their mission.  In this case they are accused of stopping Shutter without due cause, searching her cell phone illegally and doing a body search.

  2.  Shutter and others have accused the APD of discouraging them from filing  formal complaints with Review Board and giving internal affairs the ability to handle solely on the inside. Tuffey has admitted this aspect.

  3. And to the best of my knowledge the APD has STILL not installed the cameras in the patrol cars even though Tuffey has touted it as one of his accomplishments.

This speaks to more than just "is she or isn't she" telling the truth so stop just focusing on that aspect.
 

Valid points all (none / 0) (#32)
by integritypd on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:38:40 AM EST
and its often the argument made that if someone has an unsavory background they shouldn't be entitled to their rights.
integritypd
Fedup (none / 0) (#33)
by one flew east on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:06:42 AM EST
"This speaks to more than just "is she or isn't she" telling the truth so stop just focusing on that aspect".

You got to be kidding me, right.  If she is lying about why she was where and who she was with, couldn't she also be lying about the cavity search?

I know, not in your world.  

One flew... (none / 0) (#37)
by FedUp on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:29:35 PM EST
Yes, she could be lying about the cavity search.  Or no, she could not be.  My quote was "in this case they are accused..." The point is that the APD has some major issues with members of a special unit that acts outside the law.  And whether Shutter made it up or not the accusations need to be investigated by an agency without a political agenda / vested interested in protecting their members.  

I don't know about you but I'm not willing to sign away my constitutional rights in exchange for protection like this.  

[ Parent ]

facts (none / 0) (#34)
by DIA on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:51:07 AM EST
just so we are clear, how did she lie about who she was?  that is news to me.

FedUp (none / 0) (#35)
by alfrednewman on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:47:50 AM EST
This is another case where cameras in the cars would have ended this discussion very quickly.  It would be helpful to see how Shutter reacted to the cop car and how she behaved after being pulled over and what exactly happened.

On a side note:
This case illistrates how hard it is for the police to do what we demand of them.

If the information that came out about why she was in the neighborhood is correct- to pick up a parolee who was there to buy drugs- then isn't she exactly what the police were there to stop?  

Someone coming into West Hill to buy drugs?

I have to wonder if we would be having this discussion at all if the police had stopped her just after she had picked up the parolee because then there would have been drugs is the car.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"
[ Parent ]

Sorry DIA (none / 0) (#36)
by one flew east on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 09:06:59 AM EST
It was a little to early for me.  The word "where", should have been "there"

SDU etc (none / 0) (#38)
by tmonjeau on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:26:24 PM EST
Okay, so I have been practicing law around here for a while (25 years) and I find it surprising that these kind of stops are news to you all.  They have been going on for as long as I have been practicing law(and much longer I am sure, but I've only been around for 25).  
   The fact of the matter is, when someone gets the "stop and frisk" or the stop and toss the car and  pants and socks, when nothing is found, the subject of the illegal search just goes away relieved.  If contraband is found, sometimes a pretext is found for the search and of course no one believes the druggie, and sometimes suppression motions keep the evidence out and the defendant goes free.  

  The only difference in the Shutter case is the claim that a male cop stuck his hand down her pants being convinced that she was cruising to buy drugs and had them stashed.  

  The legal/constitutional fact is that everything that was done to Ms. Shutter, after the stop, (assuming that she did not "consent" to the search) was in violation of her constitutional rights.  Searching her purse, car and cell phone was not justified without probable cause, a pesky constitutional right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure.  And just as true, is the fact that these kind of police actions do turn up drug sellers and buyers and guns sometimes, and some would say the end justifies the means.  And of course, the constitution is not much in vogue of late, and in fact some people (not including gun enthusiasts) consider it kind of "quaint".

  You all should not think that APD are the only ones that do this, as my daughter told me after the fact that on a couple of occasions when she and friends were hanging out in Guilderland, cops came up asked what they were doing "Hanging out and talking" they said, whereupon the GPD asked if they "consented" to a search of their vehicle, to which they "agreed"  (Since they were not into alcohol and drugs and figured they had nothing to hide...)  Cops searched bags and cars then left.  I was pretty irate that A) Cops even asked with no reason to suspect anything, except that they were teens,  B) that they forfeited their constitutional rights and C) my own daughter did not call me when it happened.  

  Of course, upon reflection, I thought what would I have done as a 17 year old kid? Probably the same thing because you are intimidated and don't know any better.  If she had called and asked me, I would have told the cops on their behalf, NFW you can do a search without probable cause.  But, things being what they are, I would not feel 100% confident that there would not have been some negative consequences...  I have just seen too many things over the past 25 years.

  As to Ms. Shutter, all the BS about she whether she lied about this or that, or her friend was a parolee or whatever, it is all purely irrelevant, the cops had not right to do any of what they did, even assuming there was no cavity search. And what was she supposed to do, call a lawyer on her cell phone.

  And last, but absolutely not least, you can call me naive if you want, but in my view of the world, I can understand any possible reason why every cop car should not have a mounted camera and every interrogation room should not have video taping.  It protects the cops and subjects and it makes every good stop and/or interrogation and/or statement or "admission" virtually bullet proof, but it also eliminates almost all chances getting away with the trampling of peoples rights.

  In Shutter's case, the cops obviously suspected that she was buying or had bought drugs, but unfortunately, driving while white in a rental care in a minority neighborhood is pretty half assed profiling and simply does not provide any reasonable cause to do what they did, and lucky for her, and unlucky for the cops, their hunch was wrong.

  Sorry for the long post, but I have been reading all the stupid back and forth for a while that does not address the real issues of this situation and finally had to put in my 2 cents.

   

Tom (none / 0) (#39)
by alfrednewman on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:40:25 PM EST
Tom:

I had this discussion with an attorney friend back when all of this first hit the papers.  He told me that I should refuse any searches if ever asked.  So I pointed out to him that in a situation where you are pulled over by the police and refuse to "cooperate" then you are leaving yourself open for more trouble then it is worth.  A while back on another thread I referenced an idiot former employee that I had who had the misfortune of finding trouble in Rennselear. He also had found trouble here in Albany.  He refused to allow a police officer to search his coat so they arrested him on criminal impersonation.  He says he told the officer his name, the officer said that he gave him someone else's.  The officer in question already knew who my former employee was. They had a previous "history"  The word of a black guy against a police officer's.  

When I a college student I was pulled over in Colonie and was asked and granted permission to a police officer to search my car when I was pulled over. Why not? I had absolutely nothing to hide.  Giving up a constitutional right? Sure. But on a practical side what would happen if I had refused to grant them permission and answered every question posed to me with "I plead the 5th Amendment?"

So here is the question that I have for you as an attorney.  If the goal is to make our streets safe and to prevent illegal activity how do you propose the police do their jobs?  From my perspective this is a good example of where the "law" acts against the common good and actually makes our streets far less safe.  Can't pull over a vehicle that is "out of place?" Can't ask to search a car and person that was probably acting in a "suspicious manner?"  Then, exactly, what can the police department do?

Last year there was a shooting in the western end of West Hill.  People on this blog were frothing at the mouth because the police did not intercept the two New York City thugs before they opened fire.   One of the regular posters here was questioning why the police didn't pull over their pimped out ride.  So what should the police do?  Allow druggies to cary on their trade unmolested?  Allow people from the suburbs to support the gang run drug trade without fear that they will be pulled over?

And out of curiosity, does the Albany Sheriff's Department have cameras mounted in their cars?
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

And Tom (none / 0) (#40)
by alfrednewman on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:57:00 PM EST
There is also a question of credibility here.  According to the Times Union this woman was ferrying a parolee to buy drugs. Around this time this same parolee was robbing gas stations. As "bird of a feather..." do you believe this woman's version of events?
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"
Al I don't necessarily disagree with you, but (none / 0) (#41)
by tmonjeau on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:58:14 AM EST
Your first comments validated my point about negative consequences of asserting your Constitutional rights.  As I also noted, the unconsitutional searches sometimes result in the seizure of drugs and illegal guns (and I want as many illegal guns off the street as possible).  And even tho I was a little annoyed that my daughter did not call me when the GPD did their thing, her and her friends' felt the same as you did as a young college student.

  My points, however, are becoming (or have become) a constitution optional country, and for someone that thought our constitution is one of the things that has made our country and society different and as great as it is, it bothers me a lot, and also that I think that the discussion about Ms. Shutter is missing the point.  If drugs or something illegal was found there would be no issue and we never would have heard about the case.  

   I recall a poster that I used to see around back in the day, about the Lutheran (I think) minister in Nazi Germany that begins something like "When they came to take the Jews, I did not protest because, when they came to take the....then when they came to take me, there was no one left to protest." (Someone who is more internet savvy than I can find the name and piece I am referring to.

   Let me ask you, especially now that hundreds of individuals who were convicted are now being freed due to finally being able to prove their innocence due to miracle of DNA, do you subscribe to the theory that you would rather jail one innocent person in order to jail nine guilty ones?  And if so, if it was you or one of your kids, would that change your mind?

   As to the Albany County Sheriffs, no they do not have cameras, but as I said, I think that all cars should have them.  Of course, as a practical matter, the need is much higher in an urban policing environment, who should get them first.

  As to getting the bad guys off the streets, good police work can still be done within the confines of the Constitution, it is just harder.

oops (none / 0) (#42)
by tmonjeau on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:01:11 AM EST
It should have said "we are becoming a constitution optional country"

Do I believe... (none / 0) (#43)
by tmonjeau on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:19:17 AM EST
Al,  Sorry that I forgot to respond to your question.  I have no idea if her story is true, nor do I have any way of knowing other than guessing. If I was to guess, however, I have not heard that she has any criminal record so I guess it seems unlikely that she was in some robery or burglary ring, and obviously she was not DWI or driving under the influence of drugs, otherwise they would have busted her.

  And, it does not matter if I believe her story or not, my feeling is that the constitution should be respected, with all of its difficulties because that is the bedrock and foundation of our freedoms and the success of America.  

Tom (none / 0) (#44)
by alfrednewman on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:02:24 PM EST
Tom:

It would probably be fun to sit down and discuss the history, theory and realities of our Constitution and debate how we have perverted the meaning and the original intent to the point where the document is meaningless.  

Being a world class cynic I have looked but have yet to find the "Right to Privacy" in our written constitution or figured out how such a "right" would apply to a medical procedure or why a minor female child- who is legally not capable of entering into a contract- can have this medical procedure- and no other-  without consent of her parent or legal guardian.

I am in a field where I do not enjoy the Freedom of Speech and do not have the right to follow the teachings of my religion.  I have been informed that if I apply for certain licenses that my office is subject to warrentless and unannounced searches.   I am subject to the fiat of administrative "judges."  

Good police work done within "the confines of the Constitution?"  It is far too late for that.

Our rights and our God given freedoms have been pissed away by shallow minded twits who believe they can legislate morality and think they can use the laws for social engineering.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

WHAT? There was more to the story? | 44 comments (44 topical, 0 hidden)
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