DA Conviction Rate Debated


By DIA, Section News
Posted on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:07:40 AM EST

Surely a preview of a discussion we will be hearing about.

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DA Conviction Rate Debated | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 hidden)
Thanks for bringing this to my attention (none / 0) (#1)
by TerryONeillEsq on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 11:22:59 AM EST
To the editors:

The dispute between District Attorney candidates Cara Briggs and Michael Green over conviction statistics is emblematic of the way in which public debate and media coverage of the state of crime and justice in this nation completely miss the point. ("D.A. conviction rate debated", Democrat and Chronicle, September 24). The numbers that these individuals are throwing around are not remotely indicative of the quality of life that our colossal expenditures on criminal justice are buying us.

The state's crime statistics czar, Division of Criminal Justice Services Commissioner Denise O'Donnell, has been crowing about declines in rates of serious crime. In point of fact, this country is spending $60 billion a year on prisons and prisoners to buy this superficial decline in crime statistics. It has been said, probably by Commissioner O'Donnell herself, that the Pataki administration's Operation IMPACT, the state's premier local assistance program for police and prosecutors, is responsible for these numbers. Perhaps it is.

Operation IMPACT is a classic instance of what criminal justice experts call "million dollar blocks", perennially distressed, crime-ridden neighborhoods where the only government investment ever made is in the form of intensified police, prosecution and incarceration. Crime statistics may go down as the result of these expenditures, but the overall quality of life for people who live in these communities spirals ever downward as incarceration becomes a family tradion over successive generations of poor families. Need I mention that all this money is essentially spent to control and marginalize young black men?

Rochester, take a look at yourself. Every form of crime has declined in your city with the frustrating exception of homicide. This tells me that for all the spending we do on law enforcement, prosecution and corrections, life in the inner city is cheaper than ever.

Yours truly,
TERRY O'NEILL
Albany, NY
 

Brilliant letter Terry. (none / 0) (#2)
by Jim Travers on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 12:16:24 PM EST
Thank you so much for your analysis and for writing your letter to the editors.

It is rare to see such an accurate view of the plagued inner city aired anywhere locally except from Alice Green.

Unfortunately, those most familiar with the truth of the matter more often become incarcerated themselves having succumbed to the intense pressures and hopelessness fostered by their immediate environment. Those who escape its grasp rarely look back and who can blame them for not wanting to revisit such nightmares.

If these monies were spent to improve the conditions of those living in poverty we would all be much better off.

Um Jim (none / 0) (#3)
by alfrednewman on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 01:18:22 PM EST
The CATO Institute that DIA thinks is fine to quote reported that we have spent NINE TRILLION dollars through 2004 on social services programs.

Clearly these programs are failures and additional spending wont help either. Have you considered that the social spending may be the actual root cause of these problems?

We have eliminated any sort of personal responibility for someone's actions. We have eliminated the need to plan ahead. We have eliminated the reason for going to school or learning a trade.

Here is an over simplifaction of the problem but:

When we take care of someone from cradle to grave and tell them repeatedly that they need the governments help to do anything-from buy diapers to go to school-why should we be surprised when they feel hopelessness and refuse to participate in the greater economy.

Terry, you may want to remember that the only place that a young black male to learn an honest trade is IN PRISON. Think I am wrong?
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

Learn a trade? (none / 0) (#5)
by TerryONeillEsq on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 01:33:37 PM EST
Actually, I'm in discussions with a person who is committed to developing a better place than prison for a young black man to learn a trade.  His idea is quite compelling because these guys are getting out of prison with nothing like a marketable resume.

[ Parent ]
hmms (none / 0) (#4)
by DIA on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 01:33:16 PM EST
you may want to remember that the only place that a young black male to learn an honest trade is IN PRISON. Think I am wrong?

David Soares grew up in an inner city household.  I know its not prison but he did manage to make it into an ivy league college and through law school.  Now, that is no guarantee he won't go down the wrong path at some point but i think your statement that the only place black men can learn is in prison is...how do we say..ah..fucked up.

So DIA, (none / 0) (#6)
by alfrednewman on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 03:28:38 PM EST
Lets see:  You have a inner city youth growing up and going to an ivy league school and becomes a DA.  I guess you have proved me wrong. All an inner city kid has to do is go to an ivy league school and not worry about learning a trade.

Problem solved. That was easy.  

Hey, DIA, you like to beat up Jennings for not having up to date information on his site.  Can you tell me why the DA's web site hasnt updated the crime stats since 2004?  He that embarrassed?
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

very embarassing (none / 0) (#7)
by DIA on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:49:43 PM EST
the DA's site should be updated and should be setting an example for the city.

you are correct about this.  That is a start for you.

Of course the city says they have a full time web mistress who is going to keep us updated.  At least we aren't paying for the DA's site to not be updated.

Oh, really? (none / 0) (#8)
by alfrednewman on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 05:08:37 PM EST

He certainly doesnt have a problem making sure that his press releases are posted and there are a lot of photos posted in the galley from last year.

And I am glad that you agree that a all a little inner city urchin has to do is go to an ivy league school.

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"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

oh really (none / 0) (#9)
by DIA on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 05:16:43 PM EST
Al, your statement that the only place young black men can get training is in prison is really fucking racist.   there are more poor uneducated white people in this country than poor uneducated black people.  We ain't sending them to prison for job training.  There are a hell of a lot of well educated young black men doing well.  I gave you one example.  

I know you don't think of it as racist, but imagine how a kid in west hill feels when they read that.   Think that makes 'em feel like not shooting the first fucking white guy they see.  I know it would make me feel that way.

job training (none / 0) (#10)
by DIA on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 05:18:35 PM EST
police officer, "son, why'd you shoot that guy?"

kid, "fuck, I want to get me some job training and if didn't put a cap in his ass I might only get me an associates degree".

DIA (none / 0) (#11)
by alfrednewman on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 10:09:21 PM EST
And just how many people in West Hill read your blog?  Let them respond and provide the street that they live on, their race and what they do for a living.

Racists? What a bunch of bullshit and we both know it.

What chances does an inner city black child have in Albany? 80% of all Albany 8th graders cannot read to minimal 8th grade leveles. 80%. Do you really think that we are prepairing them for a successful college carear? I don't. I think we are setting them up for failure and I think the statistics are backing me up on this.  

Prove me wrong, DIA, how many Albany students who have entered the 9th grade go on to successfully complete a 4 year college degree vs how many of them end up doing time?  Prove that I am a "racist" here.

The only real way to break the cycle of poverty isnt though college, which most inner city kids are grossly under prepaired for by our expensive failure of a school system, its by teaching them a trade.

Your comment, by the way, demonstrates a real problem in our society.  We can't even talk about what the real problems are without someone throwing the race card out.

I will tell you what I tell everyone who uses this tact: Those who throw the race card out first is wrong and knows it.

You used one example to prove your point in the email.  One black kid, from a two family immigrant household does not prove a point at all.  I could be equally stupid and suggest that you read Donald Regens autobiography. A white kid from a background of poverty made it to the top of the heap.  But for ever Donald Regan there were hundreds of Southie boys who went into gangs and either were rubbed out or ended up in prisons.

In my high school the guy with the highest GPA was on the vocational training route (much to the anger of kids who went the accedemic route). In my class several of the white kids learned trades and now are pulling in big bucks getting their hands dirty. All of my cousins are farmers. They also went the trades route and are considered "poor."  

You are right about there being far more white kids in poverty then blacks. Would you care to explain to me why you rarely, if ever, hear of some poor white kid engaging is shootings in Albany, Schenectady, Syracuse, Utica, Watertown, Rochester, or Buffalo?

Is it because white kids are taught that they can make their own way while black kids are taught from the cradle that they are wards of the state and no matter what they do they will always be that way????

Just who is the fucking racist here????

I firmly believe that white or black that the God damn kids should be taught to be a productive member of our society.  The guy I referenced earlier, by the way, is the superitendent of my towns highway department. His family didnt have two dimes to rub together when he was growning up. They lived up the street from me.

Other people I know who went the trades route are now making a hell of a lot of money.  Why can they do it and some kid from the West Hill can not.

Or is this another racist question.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

crystal meth (none / 0) (#12)
by DIA on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 05:32:07 AM EST
this is what the poor white kids do.  And they are also criminals.

Those on the front lines of the war on drugs agree. A recent survey of 500 law-enforcement agencies by the National Association of Counties finds that 87 percent have seen increases in meth-related arrests in the past three years. Most county sheriffs now say meth is their main drug problem, connected to increases in robberies, burglaries, domestic violence, assaults, identity thefts, and child neglect.

I agree that people should learn a trade.  I don't agree that we should adopt a policy of sending all young black men to prison to become plumbers.   Unless you consider learning how to hide a home made knife up your ass as some type of plumbing.

i don't know if this statement is racist (none / 0) (#13)
by Lame Man on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 06:01:49 AM EST
or just ridiculous.

Is it because white kids are taught that they can make their own way while black kids are taught from the cradle that they are wards of the state and no matter what they do they will always be that way????

Fucking nonsense.  "Wards of the state"?  Who talks like that, who teaches their children that?  Nobody.  That is the thought of a crackpot ideologue.

Lame (none / 0) (#14)
by alfrednewman on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 06:37:44 AM EST
Oh really?

Maybe you should take a look at how our entire social welfare system is set up and then determine who is following a crackpot idealogy.

Again, trillions spent and where are we?
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

You want to talk about (none / 0) (#15)
by Lame Man on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 07:01:12 AM EST
policy, we can talk about policy.  But that is not what you said.  You said that white children are taught one thing and black children are taught another thing.  I say that's bullshit.

Then why (none / 0) (#16)
by alfrednewman on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 07:37:30 AM EST
is there such a difference in life expectations?

Its because from the start of an inner city young lad life there is the government case worker reinforcing the future of that child, and his group, as the perminent underclass.  Our economy is dependent on this.  

Or are you also short sighted enough not to believe that the blacks are intentionally being kept as second class citizens?
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"
[ Parent ]

Dude (none / 0) (#17)
by Lame Man on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 07:55:10 AM EST
Crackpot ideology.  Every black child has a caseworker?  What kind of insanity is that?  And the caseworker's role is to keep the blacks in line?  Perhaps there are some caseworker readers here who would like to take you up on that.

I'm pretty much done with this conversation.  You appear to have some deep-seated beliefs that I think are - how should I say this - nuts.  I have no interest in debating you about the world that exists in your head.

[ Parent ]

Lame (none / 0) (#18)
by alfrednewman on Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 09:16:04 AM EST
Did I say that there was a case worker per child?

No I certainly did not.  What I am saying is that our society has developed a system that prepetuates the cycle and is dependent on the continuation.

You should take a look at the poverty rates, arrest rates, unemployment rates within the minority community. Look at the number of single mothers.  Look at the percentage of the population that are on social services and/ or are recieving subsidized housing and then tell me that I am wrong.  

And as politics is usually rational it has to be intentional.  
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"

DA Conviction Rate Debated | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 hidden)
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