Democracy In Albany - New York Politics ||

County Legislature Race in Center Square

By Uncle Sam, Section Diaries
Posted on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 03:27:11 PM EST

So far, I've seen two candidates running on a primarily permit parking platform...I had to get that alliteration in there :)

If elected, they have a plan to finally bring residential permit parking to downtown Albany.

I understand that permit parking has not occurred, despite many people's best efforts, because, like NYCs congestion tax, it has to be approved by the state. As the state employee unions are strongly opposed to a residential permit parking bill, it has been held up in committee in the State Senate. Who would have thought the unions would be in bed with people with an (R) next to their names!

Knowing what I know about the issue, I will not vote for anyone on the county level who makes this promise becuase I really doubt they can keep it. Saying "I want a permit parking bill" is not a plan...it's a desire. What's the plan?

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County Legislature Race in Center Square | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)

Permit Parking - Double Edge Sword (none / 0) (#1)
by Corruptany on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 07:56:55 PM EST

Permit parking isn't all its cracked up to be. They have it in my neighborhood and it is hit or miss. In some respects it good because you know you can find parking. However the downside is going to other neighborhoods. I need a vistors pass to park literally three blocks away from me. If I get home late and there are no spots and I accidently park in the wrong zone, bam I have a ticket. Also, I think it inhibits people from coming to the city. In my experience I tend to stay away from areas where I know there is a permit system because its not worth the hasel of finding a space. My neighborhood is a perfect example. Years ago it was busseling with commerce and weekends here are so dead since their isn't a parking garage anywhere close by. In the past two years I have seen neighborhood institutions close their doors and have seen companys move to the suburbs due to better access to parking for their employees. Like I said its hit or miss, its good if your a resident who likes to walk everywhere, but it is bad for businesses without access to a parking garage.

Fixing the parking "problem" (none / 0) (#2)
by AlfredMoisiu on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:08:50 PM EST

The problem with parking isn't the evil state workers, it's the buildings that are stuffed full of people with cars. It's not uncommon to have 3-4 cars in a 2-bedroom center square apartment.

Before you start cheering about permit parking, drive around center square at 4 AM on Sunday or Monday.

Guess what?

There's no parking, and it's not because of state workers, bar patrons etc.

Other than guaranteeing that the businesses on Lark will go out of business, permit parking won't solve a thing.

A.M.'s right and Corruptany raises some ... (none / 0) (#3)
by Jim Travers on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:58:14 PM EST

good points too.

The first parking permit system instituted in Center Square was found to be unconstitutional.

Back in the post-war era of the 1940's many of what were single family homes were first divided up into apartments to accommodate the housing needs of returning GIs. This wasn't too much of a problem then because many city dwellers didn't own cars and relied upon the area's extensive trolley system. Back then you could actually ride a trolley all the way out to Averill Park.

Beginning back in the sixties with the destruction of many hundreds of homes in preparation for the building of the South Mall, the first housing crunch began. This reached its apex with the redevelopment of Center Square in the eighties, when almost every single family home was split into two, three or more apartments with each unit's occupants having two or more vehicles.

I think that the only remedy to the parking situation in Center Square would be to allow the residents living there to use the many parking garages of the plaza and its environs and provide many small shuttle buses to take them back and forth if they are unable to find convenient parking close to home.

The permit system won't do much to help an already overcrowded neighborhood.

Not progressive enough (none / 0) (#4)
by AlfredMoisiu on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 08:03:11 PM EST

I think that you're on the mark about the parking garage idea -- particularly during storms or when there are major events in the park.

One of the problems with your idea is a lack of common sense and vested interests among many of the people who speak out about these things.

During the SDAT presentation people cheered when the team mentioned removing on street parking on some streets to facilitate multimodal transit options, mainly busses with GPS that would have a dedicated lane and could change traffic signals. Many of the people who live downtown have this dream of a Manhattan-like lifestyle and have this virulent anti-car attitude.

The big development crowd is pretty crazy too. Consider the convention center, that is going to demolish the Hudson St. parking garage/post office that was just built a few years ago. (And that the parking authority is almost certainly still making bond payments on)

IMHO, the market will take care of the mass transit issues. There's no economic dis-incentive to commute into Albany, even from a place like Glens Falls. If we don't discover more oil somewhere, and prices continue to increase, you'll see a shift towards mass transit.

[ Parent ]

: Platforms of BS (none / 0) (#5)
by alfrednewman on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 05:52:31 PM EST

When the petition carrier for RA DePrema, the guy running on the parking permit line, came around getting signatures he was really reluctant to say who he was working for. He said that he needed signatures to get the issue on the ballot... Only when pressed would he say who he was working for.
The other guy, according to his lit, is a lawyer for the State Senate. He works for the same people who won't give us the legislation needed for Albany to have parking permits.
I seriously have to wonder why these two people are running on issues that they cant do anything about as a county legislator.
Makes me wonder if they actually know what the office they are running on does.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"
[ Parent ]

Great Comments (none / 0) (#6)
by Uncle Sam on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 08:05:32 PM EST

Though I didn't necessarily want to get into the virtues pro/con of permit parking...I wanted to understand if anyone had insight on what the county legislature could do. After having the post up for a week, it seems like the answer is nothing.

Now my opinion on the pros of permit parking.

I agree that after 6:30-7PM it is impossible to find regular street parking, but there are numerous alternatives...State St by the plaza, Washington Park, etc. During the day, there are zero alternatives other than running out several times a day to refill parking meters or move your car from one part of the park to another (there's a 90 min limit on Lark and in the Park).

The permit parking proposal sent by the City to NYS was for less than 50% of available spots, during business hours and had a sunset clause.

Permit parking has not been incorporated for one reason...the state employee unions. Despite new garages and more than adequate parking, the unions feel like their members will be screwed if a permit parking scheme is put in effect. Nothing could be further from the truth. Their members who insist on idling their cars for 15-30 min every day are screwing themselves when there are parking garages and satellite parking via CDTA set up for them.

Ask someone from CP or Colonie why they won't move downtown...two reasons, crime and parking. And it's parking that is the first thing that comes out of their mouths!

Residential permit parking is the best thing the State of NY could do to encourage downtown living without spending a dime. And if more employees lived downtown, perhaps it would have an impact on miles driven/pollution etc.

: You have a good point (none / 0) (#7)
by AlfredMoisiu on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 01:11:46 PM EST

Obviously there are pros and cons to each approach. If there isn't a clear benefit, I tend to err towards less government involvement in my life.
If you want people currently living in detached single family homes in other places moving into downtown, you need to lower the density. When you convert the 3-8 family rowhouses back into 1-3 families as they were originally intended, you'll have solved your parking problem in the process.
BTW, the self-appointed "activist" class would be dead-set against that, because they don't like those "bland" folks who don't think like them.

[ Parent ]

Now that Albany has a Parking Authority ... (none / 0) (#8)
by Jim Travers on Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 12:11:00 AM EST

which was established by the state legislature, does the city have to again seek their approval for a permit system? I think not, but do not know for sure.

If they don't need to approach the legislature, the unions objection would be mooted.

With today's two member families generally each having their own vehicles, the street frontage for each property would be adequate to accommodate two vehicles for a single family structure.

If there are two or more units with each having two occupants with their own vehicles, there would not be enough parking spaces available to accommodate all the structure's residents vehicles.

Most of the homes in these neighborhoods were designed before the advent of the automobile.

Even those built after the auto came into being were for families that were able to afford only one vehicle, if any. Also most homes were single family homes.

Planners a hundred years ago would never have foreseen a single family having two, three or more vehicles.

So unless these revert back to single family homes, and that's not going to happen, there will alway be a street parking problem in the Center Square neighborhood.

Having both lived and worked in Center Square, I believe the permit system won't rectify the parking problem caused by the neighborhood's population density. It may alleviate it at some hours of the day, but a permit system will not cure Albany's parking problems.

I believe I offered the only viable solution in an earlier posting.

: Jim (none / 0) (#9)
by alfrednewman on Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 10:45:19 AM EST

The state legislature would still have to vote to allow Albany to have parking permits.
I personally think that the way to solve a lot of our problems in to actually put the commuter rail in between Southern Saratoga and Albany instead of just talking and bitching about it.
Then install a light rail line between downtown, the train station, and the malls.
"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"
[ Parent ]

Thanks Al, (none / 0) (#10)
by Jim Travers on Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 04:27:30 PM EST

I wasn't sure that once an authority is created they couldn't do whatever they determined was necessary to alleviate the parking crunch.

As you are probably aware, Amtrak already runs between Saratoga and Rensselaer. The problem is that in both locales the stations are in far from convenient locations.

The other rail line I would advocate for re-establishing is the now relatively defunct line that runs from downtown Albany (by the port) out through Bethlehem, Slingerlands and beyond. For many years I have been hawking the benefits of light rail but my words have always fallen on deaf ears.

I would suppose if another permit parking system was instituted that it too will again be found to be unconstitutional.

: Some thoughts (none / 0) (#11)
by AlfredMoisiu on Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 05:17:16 PM EST

The Albany Parking Authority can issue tax-exempt bonds to build parking structures and perform other functions, backed by parking revenue.
Modern authorities generally do not have the kind of unlimited power that notorious authorities like Robert Moses park authorities had in their day. They can't bypass the constitution.
The problem with light rail is that infrastructure and labor is too expensive these days. The state would be the only entity capable of building it, since it isn't required to adhere to the SEQRA laws that normally kill major development.
The state involvement poisons new construction -- because towns would see no revenue and wouldn't support it. (Property/school tax on rail lines are typically great cash cows.) People in opposition would rally.. the bike lunatics want old tracks to be converted to a bike trails, and the people who live near the tracks would rally against the noise. The whole project would be stillborn.
Putting Albany-Saratoga commuter rail in is non-trivial as well. Key portions of the tracks are owned by CSX, which is required by ancient contracts and laws to grant access to Amtrak. (Remember that both were the NY Central or D&H years ago) Because its so hard to get rights of way these days, they aren't willing to sell the property. This is why there's no high-speed Albany->NYC rail.... CSX owns like 5 miles of track and refuses to sell or do necessary upgrades.
The other factor is that you can't force people, other than state workers, to use it. People like cars, and won't pay more for a longer, more hassle-filled commute. Alot of interests (carmakers, airlines, insurance companies, fast food, real estate developers) are pro-car and will tilt an apathetic public against any rail projects.

[ Parent ]

County Legislature Race in Center Square | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)

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