Jennings Speaks the Truth Again


By DIA, Section News
Posted on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:13:53 AM EST

Occasionally Mayor Jennings actually addresses the public. It is rare but it happens. However, rarely does he tell the public the truth about how he is running this city. Well, today is one of those days. Savor it because you may not get another.
"Housing is a very, very low priority," said Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings, also a member of the Harriman board. "Housing is not a priority for redevelopment of the Harriman campus. It never has been, and it should not be.
See, houses are for people. People who pay taxes and vote. People are a very, very low priority. What we need are big developers who won't pay taxes and just donate money to politicians who give them the tax breaks. That is a very, very high priority. In summary, "people bad, developers good".

Make sure to read the rest of the article where some other people discuss why having housing at Harriman would be a good thing.

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Jennings Speaks the Truth Again | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
A different take (none / 0) (#1)
by alfrednewman on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:24:44 AM EST
First question:  Does anyone actually know what the PILOT payment for the Harriman campus is?  
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I assume that these properties are not going to be single family high end housing and will be apartment complexes.

I think that commercial development is probably a better deal for Albany then housing for the following reasons:

  1. The units would probably be upscale and high end and there is a lot of competition that will be entering that market in the next few years from the tax payer supported projects already proposed for downtown.

  2. These projects tend to be supported at tax payer expense. 10 and 20 year property tax abatements usually will cover the entire cost of the projects.  Not only would all of us be paying for the construction but these projectes would devalue the older garden style apartment complexes in the area and lowerer their assessed value- and their tax revenue.  Again, using the "deals" that have been made with other developers as a guide, by the time that these apartment complexes are paying their fair share of property taxes they will already be devalued due to age.

  3. Even single family houses uptown would not be economically viable without tax payer support.  

The simple fact is that the property is in Albany and taxes are going to be higher than 1000 feet away in Guilderland.    

  1. More residential will knock the stuffing out of attempts to renovate and improve the downtown sections of Albany.

  2. We need more private sector jobs in Albany. The city cannot sustain itself on the government tit.  Already a disproportionate amount of Albany property is either state, church, or not for profit owned.

"What? Me worry? " "whatmeworry.alfred@gmail.com"
Housing and Votes (none / 0) (#2)
by Roscoe on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:40:32 AM EST
If a portion of the Harriman campus were non-exempt, non-subsidized housing, and a few hundred more non-bought votes were in that area of the city, it could fundamentally change the politics of the city. They might be smart votes, not sheep votes. That's bad news for politics as usual.

Reminds me of Corning's ultimately unsuccessful, but very expensive, opposition to student votes years ago.

If housing, rather than office space, is built, development profits could be lower. That's bad news for the developer in the short run, perhaps, but in the long term would increase the city's population and increase the viability of commericial development elsewhere, as these voters would also be consumers.

There is a polite word for this: shortsighted.  I am trying to be polite today.

Who's going to live there? (none / 0) (#3)
by ObnoxioTheClown on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 08:32:11 AM EST
The problem with housing is that you're going to get another mini-ghetto in Albany that will poison the surrounding neighborhoods.

Nobody is going to buy a high-end house in the Harriman campus, because people with $350,000+ for a house aren't sending their kids to Albany schools or want to pay $7,000/yr in taxes versus $5,000 three miles up the road in Guilderland.

You need to bring businesses to the area to improve the economy and push the rif-raff out of the city. There's plenty of good housing stock -- you just need a cash infusion to clean up.

[ Parent ]

Not a typpo? (none / 0) (#4)
by TerryONeillEsq on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 10:15:12 AM EST
"Occasionally Mayor Jennings actually addresses the public. It is rare but it happens. However, rarely does he tell the public the truth about how he is running (sic) this city."

"Development" in the City (none / 0) (#5)
by tmonjeau on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 11:26:55 AM EST
  First of all, I believe that the report of the city's demise is being greatly exaggerated.  I will start with my own neighborhood.  When I moved in in 1984, Delaware Ave was in some trouble, and several families that I knew moved for that reason.  Since that time, au contraire, our neighborhood has enjoyed a slow and steady renaissance.  Why, you may ask.  Well as a product of a Loudonville type upbringing in Poughkeepsie, I and many others found city living to be very comfortable and enjoyable, we set down roots and worked hard on the neighborhood.  

  The housing stock in our area was mostly middle to upper middle class when it was built, with architectual features and amenities, and at the current price range of $130,000 to $200,000 is is  more affordable than the burbs.  As many of you may know, Delaware Ave ain't perfect, but it seems that our influx of young families belies your pessimistic views of the future of our city and county.

  The above narrative has a point, despite the old saw, oft repeated in this blog, a large number of my long time neighbors, like myself and wife, are not Albanians, but are immigrants to Albany and we have found this a great place to raise our kids.  I think that there are enough folks who are drawn to city living, and with the development of a mix of new housing, such as Harriman apt bldgs, condos on the river, lofts downtown and renovated and revitalized inner city housing, we can offer a great range of housing options, which the burbs can't offer.
   Now of course, taxes are an issue.  The tax rates are too high in the city.  It is mitigated to some degree vis a vis the burbs, due to the higher property values out there.  But also, as we are seeing now, as the burbs continue to grow and mature, they are starting to incur more expenses and higher taxes, it is simply a matter of time until they catch up (see for example, all the run down privately built water systems in Saratoga County that were built to service residential developments, but are allowed to be dumped on the municipalities after 10 (?) years, or the impending costs to Saratoga County residents for their new water system).  

     As to Albany schools, you naysayers always harp on the behviorally challenged students, but never mention the top AHS grads who go to Ivy League and other top schools, as well the many other kids who go on to other 4 year colleges and community colleges.  I was in the minority of my friends in sending my kids to parochial school, and each and every one of my friends whose kids have graduated from the Albany Public Schools K-12 tell me of the great programs and results for their kids, and none have been assaulted, robbed or whatever.

  However, changes need to be made, in a nutshell, neighborhood schools K-8, smaller high schools, SMALLER CLASSES, social workers in the schools, get rid of most of the Charter Schools. The school also needs to separate the chronic troublemakers if the social workers and whomever else cannot get them into a learning mode.  These kids rob many other kids of their opportunity to learn.  Of course, I have no idea if the DOE would allow this... The school taxes are out of control almost a $200 million budget for a city of about 100,000 is way out of wack.  At this point, I have no idea what to do about the budget...

  I won't even touch the city budget, as usual, it is another one shot wonder budget, and the ***t will hit the fan, what, probably next year as there will be no more crumbs to fall to Mayor JJ (or should I say to us...) off the Legislative table with the state's finances in bad shape.  I wonder what he will do next?

  Now to the actual point of this comment, which is actually related to the above.  I believe that many are seriously underestimating the power and long term implications of our morphing into Tech Valley.  A little forward thinking may let you see that along with high paying and factory wage jobs from Sematech and AMD (if and when it is built) that will permeate the capital region, and not just Saratoga, many businesses, big and small, will grow and expand, and we definitely can expect new spin offs and support businesses. These will create jobs and the multiplier effect of these salaries and wages is significant.

  If our high tech plans continue to come together, I am convinced that it will also create a different personna and identity for this area, and we will always be 3 hrs from Boston and NYC, 4 hours to Montreal a couple hours from the Adirondack Park, and the cost of living compared to say Dutchess County or anywhere south of there is a bargain and a half.  

  So, if we use the things that drew many of us to this area, I think that 5-10 years from now, the economics of the Capital region can be totally different, in a good way.  Maybe, since I see the Cap Region with different eyes than some of you because I love living in the city and specifically in the Delaware Ave neighborhood, and but from the vantage point of the county legislature, my focus was on Albany County as a whole since I believe that as they say, a rising tide raises all boats (as long as we each do our part to caulk the seams and make our neighborhood boats watertight, so to speak)

 

nice post (none / 0) (#9)
by kateb on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 12:54:10 PM EST
I smiled when you said some people in the Delaware Ave area are "immigrants to Albany", you from Poughkeepsie.

Main branch of my family were immigrants to Albany in the early 20's to lower Second Ave, from Watervliet (via Ireland) and from Newburgh (via Germany). The move up the hill to Whitehall Rd in the mid/late 20's was to farm country and brand new houses.

I grew up in Guilderland and immigrated back in the 90's.  Love living in a city, enjoy having interesting places and people so close by.  And I agree with you that the City School district gets an unfair bad rap.  

[ Parent ]

Alfred, Obnoxio (none / 0) (#6)
by Roscoe on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 11:35:55 AM EST
Hold yer horses, boyz. A reevaluation of the planning concepts currently in play is a bad thing? Allowing the market economy to work is a bad thing? Potentially changing the political dynamics of our fallen city is a bad thing? I would think rather that ANY open, transparent and positive move would be more likely to lure and stimulate investment than the current game. Of course it would have to be publicized, and for that we'd need a real newspaper, but you gotta start somewhere.  You talk like Jerry, mumbling about building subsidized infill on Alexander Street the minute the city responds to an unnecessary emergency at great expense, and another city block is finally laid waste by stupidity. Hey, condos full of greeny-geeks stylishly bicycling to work in designer hemp might not be all that bad! We could get them downtown on a trolley to drink and cross-pollinate, and they could wonder when they got there how anyone can live in the land of no-parking, the dazed (govmint workers), and the damned.

mainstreet concept (none / 0) (#7)
by nycowboy on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 12:47:30 PM EST
Apparently none of you guys have been to the Harriman Campus Hearings. The campus re-developer, Saratoga Associates, is committed to creating an intermodel neighborhood with a variety of commercial and residential properties.

They were going for a mainstreet concept, a grid, along with a parking garage for bigger employers. There also would be expanded bus service to the area.

I hope they do implement the vision first proposed. But I have my doubts -- it was a Pataki-era plan, set to 'happen' over the next 30 years.

Maybe as a Landfill (none / 0) (#8)
by nycowboy on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 12:51:53 PM EST
Once use for the Harriman Campus that hasn't been discussed is a landfill. It would only take some 50-acres (out of the 300 acres in the campus) that the city needs. It's conviently located in the middle of the ANSWERS' wasteshed, and doesn't have the environmental problems with citing a landfill in the contemporary Pine Bush.

Moreover, it's a sandy soil that could easily be extracted before building a landfill. So it seems like the perfect site, for land that nobody seems to know of a real use for.

Jennings Speaks the Truth Again | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
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